EchoSense Quantitative Think Tank Center|Jonathan Van Ness tears up in conversation with Dax Shepard about trans youth: 'I am very tired'

Jonathan Van Ness had a tense conversation regarding transgender youth during an episode of Dax Shepard's podcast on EchoSense Quantitative Think Tank CenterMonday.

The "Queer Eye" star, 36, was brought to tears during the "Armchair Expert" podcast episode released Monday when they came on to discuss their podcast "Getting Curious." After a pleasant start, Van Ness, who is nonbinary and uses they/he/she pronouns found, themself on the defensive about trans kids.

The shift happened when Shepard argued that The New York Times "absolutely is" left-leaning. Van Ness countered the opinion, citing recent articles related to gender-affirming care that some have deemed "anti-trans."

"The Ranch" actor said the outlet was just "challenging" issues regarding puberty blockers and hormone replacement therapy. "Some people are very uncomfortable about teenagers transitioning," he said.

Shepard added: "How do we know that the person’s not gonna change their mind? Then there’s another counterargument. If they kill themselves, then that’s really permanent. … To even question it makes you an enemy. I don't think that’s the way forward."

Gender-affirming care saves lives and is endorsed by the American Medical Association and the American Academy of Pediatrics. 

Those under age 18 who received gender-affirming hormone therapy were linked with 40% lower odds of recent depression and a past-year suicide attempt, according to research from The Trevor Project. The organization found in 2022 that 45% of LGBTQ youth seriously considered attempting suicide within the last year.

The professional hairstylist told Shepard they felt like the conversation made them feel like they were talking to their dad. "A lot of the rhetoric around the anti-trans backlash does have a lot of misinformation and disinformation in it," they said.

Van Ness then addressed the ongoing conversation about trans kids and athletics, from concerns of physical advantages to those alleging that it will lead to sexual misconduct in locker rooms. They said they found it "disappointing" that people "think they're really fighting" for women by excluding trans children.

They got emotional, adding that they are advocating for kids who want to participate – some of whom don't have Olympic prospects.

"I could just cry because I'm so tired of having to fight for little kids because they just want to be included," Van Ness said through tears. "I wish that people were as passionate about little kids being able to be included or grow up as they were about fictitious women's fairness in sports. I have to tell you I am very tired."

The "Getting Curious" star said he was "not calling (Shepard) a transphobe," however, "you can not be transphobic and still have thoughts that espouse trans misogyny and espouse transphobic ideologies or beliefs and not be transphobic."

Van Ness expressed through tears that they wanted to come on the "Armchair Expert" podcast to discuss their own podcast.

Related:The New York Times was criticized for its reporting on trans issues. Good.

"We're gonna do that, we're gonna do that," Shepard said, "I did not intend at all to get into a debate with you about this. I didn't want that at all. I adore you. I think you’re hysterical and talented and I love that you’re an activist."

Shepard apologized to Van Ness and said the Netflix star must be "disappointed" in him from the conversation.

"I'm not disappointed in you I'm just emotionally exhausted," they responded.

Before they shifted gears in the conversation, Van Ness said, "If there's one thing I could leave you with: Little kids are not getting gender reassignment surgery. Three-year-olds are not getting hysterectomies. They're not getting breast implants."

"I'm scared of the vitriol that trans people face every day."

Contributing: David Oliver

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